morning radio

16

WARNING! A Huge Podcast :: Stage 024

WARNING! A Huge Podcast is Approaching Fast!

A podcast covering the world of Japanese gaming, brought to you by ex-GameFan and ex-Play stars shidoshi (1P), Casey Loe (2P), and Nick Rox (3P).

//Stage 024 [Season 3]
//Main Topic: LGBTQ Issues in Japanese Gaming + ???

//Now Playing: Dokuro, Fire Emblem: Awakening, Etrian Odyssey IV, Gravity Rush, Theatrhythm Final Fantasy, Lollipop Chainsaw, Dragon’s Dogma, Persona 4 Arena, Xenoblade Chronicles, Monster World Collection, Wizardry Online

//Subtopics: Do Japanese people real care about an online Dragon Quest, Wada swears Versus XIII exists and has rocking’ towns, but Square Enix is totally over developing big games on their own, Nick goes jaja for Jojo, Fist of the North Star: Ken’s Rage 2: Rage Harder, completely timely E3 rumors, a bunch of old games are getting dusted off and re-released in HD, Dimps buys some fish that rumble, region encoding on the PS3 is the end of the world, Tales of Xillia’s xhillerating Western release, welcome to the Tokyo Jungle, Westone casts revive on a lost game, Japan is Fucked Watch, we explain (again) where we’ve been, Ashley’s ballistics, and more!

//Timecodecs
//00:01:24 – Intro
//00:25:55 – Releace a New!!
//01:45:30 – Hot Infos
//02:44:00 – Let’s Discussion
//03:30:17 – Let’s Discussion 2
//03:58:59 – Untitled End Segment

//To Help With Donations
//Contact shidoshi at / send paypal donations to: shidoshi@gomorning.com

//Feedback: wahp@morningproject.com
//Official site: Returning soon!
//Radio site: radio.morningproject.com
//Twitter: show (@WAHPcast), shidoshi (@pikoeri), Nick Rox (@NickRoxNRX), Casey Loe (@snowjew)
//Facebook: warning a huge podcast

DokuroDragon's DogmaEtrian Odyssey IVFire Emblem: AwakeningGravity RushLollipop ChainsawMonster World CollectionPersona 4 ArenaTheatrhythm Final FantasyWizardry OnlineXenoblade Chronicles

mollipen • August 1, 2012


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  • Sound the alarm! The crew has returned! Anarchy reigns up in here!

  • Garrett

    You’re the only podcast, baby.

  • Glad to see that the podcast is back, still loving it after all these years.
    ALSO if I’m not mistaken those two rumors Shidoshi spoke of sound an awful like the problems XSEED is having localizing the 2nd “Trails of the Sky” and “Grand Knights History” for the PSP.

  • Pinkys.Brain

    NICE! I was a bit worried when wahp.jp went done. But now I am 90 minutes into the stage and it is as awesome as it the ones before have been. Thanks for not podfading!!!

    It’s a bit of a shame that the job in Ôsaka did not turn out that well. I will start in a firm in Ôsaka in September (not gaming related), and I hope that I’ll be spared the burned-out…

  • Gitaroo

    the nights HD is like a PS2 HD remake, just using the libraries that Sony made with bluepoint and port things over. Might ppl probably forgot there was a PS2 version.

  • Huzzah! I pretty much never buy consoles near launch. The enormous marketing campaigns and what have you are massively overblown and launch titles almost universally suck. There’s notable exceptions like Super Mario 64 but they’re pretty few and far between.

    The next graphical upgrade seems like its going to be the weakest and game companies don’t seem to have realized photo-realism is a boring way to approach design. So I’m not too keen on this mysterious 3 games rule you have going Shidoshi. 10 games maybe, provided they’re all good/great. The tail end games are also generally the best of their particular generations.

    Games like Chrono Trigger, Vagrant Story, Valkyrie Profile 2, and Dark Souls all came at the tail end of the design cycle and are all far and away the best designed JRPGs in terms of combat depth.

  • tanto

    The 13 name is not tarnished

    AND THERE IS NO CHANCE IN HELL ITS 15

    IT has nothing in common with main line titles, they have to be turn based

  • Some Bozo

    An episode about portrayals of LGBT in gaming that didnt mention Shadow hearts covenant and/or the Man festival?

  • cucu

    I find myself strongly disagreeing with the sentiment that Naoto was “clearly a transgender person”

    I want more transgender characters in game. I want more diversity in general. But I think its kind of bullshit how Atlus has gotten bad rap for a character that, from the start, has explicitly stated that she hid her gender to avoid ridicule from her peers. Not because she truly desired to be a man.

    I urge you to watch the aftermath of Naoto’s shadow fight again. Over the years, I feel like there’s been some kind of echo chamber effect on the internet.

    Kanji, on the other hand, is fair game. I did feel like they were chickening out there and found the ambiguity with which they treated his sexuality infuriating.

  • Ken Arromdee

    Demerit points for saying that the average gamer is a 30 year old white male in a context about LGBT in Japanese games, when 1) “white male” is a category that includes just as many gay people proportionately as any other category, and 2) Japanese people are not white males.

  • @cucu – Wait, was it stated on this podcast that Naoto is trans? Because, if that was stated, that’s absolutely not the case, and I’m ashamed if I let that comment come across.

    Are you sure you didn’t misunderstand what was said? Next chance I get, I’ll re-listen to this stage and see what was said.

    @Ken – I will have to claim ignorance and say that I don’t remember how exactly that statement came out either. *laughs* I think what we meant to say was that the stereotype is that gamers are “heterosexual 30-something white men”, or that sometimes that’s the assumption that is made. Obviously, none of us think that that’s what the “average” gamer is, because there is no “average” when talking about people.

  • cucu

    Hey Shidoshi,

    You said this about Naoto around 2:53:00

    “Persona 4 sets up 2 great examples of diversity in Kanji and Naoto. Kanji being a gay male and Naoto being a trans male ”

    You also say:

    “The character of Naoto really comes across as a female who sees herself as male”

    You later on complain a bit about Naoto dressing more femininely in her redesign for PersonaXdetective and say that Persona 4 treats her transgender feelings as a “temporary” thing.

    Again– with Kanji. I say fair enough. I don’t sense anything malicious about their treatment of the character, but its rather disappointing that they choose to leave his sexuality ambiguous rather than just having a goddamn gay character. Its probably a result of trying to please as much people as possible and its disappointing, for sure.

    But Naoto? I feel like some people have projected themselves onto her a bit too strongly. Her story is about institutionalized sexism. Not about the struggle trans people go through. She literally confirms this herself when you get to her shadow.

    DIRECT QUOTE FROM THE GAME: “My sex doesn’t fit my ideal image of a detective…
    Besides, the police department is a male-oriented society.
    If they had the slightest “concrete” reason to look down on me, no one would need me anymore…”

    (there are a lot more quotes like this I can give you just from that scene alone!)

    As such, I think Naoto choosing to dress slightly more feminine is 100% appropriate for the character, since it shows that she has decided to face the hurdles a working female in a male-dominated workplace suffers head-on.

    …Also, I hardly think her new design is “more sexualized” She doesn’t tie her boobs down anymore, but they aren’t ridiculously huge and she wears a classy, practical suit.

  • @cucu: Okay! I went back and listened to that part, and let me now clarify what I was saying.

    The point I was making was that, due to the way the two characters are presented, it’s easy to assume that Kanji is a gay man and Naoto is a trans man. However, Atlus then seems to shy back away from those ideas, and gives “explanations” for each characters as to why that’s not true. For Kanji, he was just nervous about liking things that are seen as being more feminine, and he was confused about being attracted to Naoto when he thought she was a he. And then, with Naoto, by the end she decides that she’s just been acting more masculine because that’s what she thought she needed to do to be a detective.

    So, I think you may have misunderstood the point that I was making—I wasn’t saying that that’s who those characters are, but that it felt like Atlus was wanting us to think that but then didn’t have the guts to go through with it. Or—as Nick and I go on to explain—in Japan it seems like it’s okay for a character to play with such ideas so long as they turn out “normal” in the end.

    I’m not sure which it is: That facet of Japanese mentality, or Atlus feeling they wanted the characters to go in one direction, but that they needed to make them safe so that some fans wouldn’t be turned off.

    So, if you took my words to mean that I was stating either Kanji or Naoto to be that particular way definitively, I’m sorry my point didn’t come across better. I absolutely think it’s rationale to see Naoto as a trans male given how she’s presented at first, but obviously in the course of the game we come to find that’s not the case.

    As for my other comment, I don’t know if “sexualized” was the best way to explain it, but I do also think some of that is going on. I feel like they’ve “girled” her up to a somewhat ridiculous degree, given how she was presented in P4 and how fans came to love her. I think she was an awesome character the way she was, and just wish Atlus hadn’t decided that she needed that extra amount of sex appeal.

  • cucu

    @Shidoshi

    I don’t think I have misunderstood you. The problem is this–

    “And then, with Naoto, by the end she decides that she’s just been acting more masculine because that’s what she thought she needed to do to be a detective.”

    “by the end” specifically.

    You are making it sound to me like Naoto was a character introduced as a transgender person. I just don’t think that’s true or a valid interpretation if you look at the dialogue in the game.

    Around 10 minutes after the story reveals that she’s truly a girl, Naoto exposits why she hides her gender and “wanting to be a man” doesn’t factor into this exposition. The dialogue kind of says the EXACT opposite.

    Like I said:

    With Kanji? Sure. He is introduced as a sexually confused kid. After the shadow confrontation we see(what seemed like) a heartwarming scene where the investigation team says its okay and he shouldn’t freak out about it so much.

    Then the game never mentions it again and we are NEVER given definitive answer as to what his sexual orientation is. The focus is put on his hobbies instead.

    With Kanji, I can see and agree that the developers probably backed off a potential gay character because the idea seemed too controversial. But not with Naoto.

    I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

    “As for my other comment, I don’t know if “sexualized” was the best way to explain it, but I do also think some of that is going on. I feel like they’ve “girled” her up to a somewhat ridiculous degree, given how she was presented in P4 and how fans came to love her. I think she was an awesome character the way she was, and just wish Atlus hadn’t decided that she needed that extra amount of sex appeal.”

    I could understand being upset if she started wearing a dress that showed cleavage and high heels, but the full extent of them “girlying her up” as you say, is give her boobs and longer hair.

    I think that’s character growth. I don’t want to imagine Naoto still tying her boobs down in shame 2 years after the events of P4 to gain the respect of her peers. I think her new character design is really fitting. Naoto no longer hides her gender, but she still dresses like a suave detective, because that’s who she is.

  • cucu

    …Unless I’m fundamentally misunderstanding what you mean with “by the end”?

    If you mean the very first scene they show up, then yeah, interpreting Kanji as gay and Naoto as trans is possible, I guess.

    But once Naoto’s arc starts, the idea gets thrown out of the window.

  • Regarding the Wizardry game Shidoshi was talking about, the developer Headlock also worked on the fabulous Radiant Historia (DS).